THUD! Motor is LOCKED UP! - Parts Compatibility?

[kboehringer]

FZR Friends,
I've had a major problem.... the motor is locked up..

I took my FZR for a quick ride around the block and it LOCKED UP about 1 mile from home. I felt a "THUD" and she was DEAD. I had to push it home the ~1mile. I was a relatively low PRM and certainly not thrashing it in any way.

The failure is certainly internal but the extent of the damage/problem is unknown. Fortunately, the failure although certainly something severe was not absolutely catastrophic there is no rod(s) blown through the case and there was not case damage (that I can see externally).

Rather than start tearing into the machine immediately, I'm going to start purchasing parts, potentially a replacement motor if I can find one. These bikes are not common here in the states and at 30 years of age parts aren't too easy to find. I have a spare cylinder head and the side covers etc. However, I don't have cylinders, pistons, rods, etc.

What year FZR engine internal parts are completely compatible with my 1992? I believe I understood the earlier model FZRs were a few cc's lower than my '92? Are the motors identical otherwise?

I'm going to start purchasing used parts, gasket sets, etc. BEFORE the disassembly begins.

I'm terribly heartbroken as this is absolutely one of my favorite bikes in my collection and one of my favorites of all time.... Anything can be fixed (if one has enough money) and this bike WILL RUN GREAT AGAIN!

[Goshreally2]

Don't want to screw with your plans too much but wouldn't it be better to strip it down first. If the motor is totalled you could end up buying parts you cannot use. Also you would find your problem first then make a plan. If you are willing to ship from abroad you will find a motor in Europe if one is not available to you there.

[Teego]

Have a look at these resources from our main site:
http://www.exup1000.co.uk/tech/fzr1000ru/index.html
http://www.exup1000.co.uk/tech/fzr1000r/index.html

[bunk]

Strip down and several hours with a bore gauge/telescoping gague&mic coming up! fwiw theres a foxeye for sale in wa state for 3k, that might be the best way to get it going again if its a bolt in deal.

[kboehringer]

FZR Friends,
Thanks for the ideas and advice on the eventual repair of this machine.

I would absolutely LOVE to start ripping into the machine to determine what exactly happened. Unfortunately, at the moment, I've another bike torn apart (a 1979 XS1100 Special) in preparation for my Annual Vintage Yamaha Rally (www.vintageyamaharally.com). I've really no room for proper organization and disassembly of this complicated motor/machine. Aside from my '16 FJR1300, this is absolutely the most complicated machine I own.....It is likely MORE complicated than the FJR with the FZR's 5-Valve cylinders and carbs it probably is more complicated.

I thought, since I have AT LEAST one spare engine for most of my bikes (currently 15), spare carb racks for EVERY bike, and large quantities of misc. spares for all the bikes. Having some extra bits laying around for the FZR wouldn't hurt. Parts for these are relatively hard to find in the USA so if I happen to see something that MAY be useful, I'll snatch it up and be hopefully be SLIGHTLY better prepared when I get the opportunity to rip into this beast from top to bottom.

Regardless of the internal damage, all of the add-on items should be just fine: water pump, alternator, carbs, etc. I have spare engine covers, oil pan, water pump, alternator, carb bank, complete cylinder head, and misc. etc. With my intention to keep this machine FOREVER... the extra handful of parts will become much more treasured and valuable as the years continue to pass on this now 30+ year old machine.

This weekend, I'll pull the tank and drain the fuel into one of the other bikes, drain the carbs, and probably pull the clutch side cover JUST TO TAKE A PEEK... Maybe it is something not toooooo catastrophic. The clutch basket idea would be a true blessing!

A bit of a thought...... I've dropped valves in machines before and blown rods completely through the engine cases. Typically, there is some rattling, vibration, shitty performance, lack of power and a good indication something bad is happening before the "BOOOOOM". There was NOTHING like that at all.... Just a THUD and she was locked up. So, it certainly didn't rev a few thousands revolutions with metal fragments or dropped valves banging around in the cylinders or cases.... HOPEFULLY, it's not TOO bad in there.

I did find a '92 engine in Miami. That's about a 9 hour drive from my home and the wife is in for the ride.... Just not too sure about the quality of that engine as the seller can provide few details on the history of the machine and he want's a small fortune for it $1000!

Still heart broken in Georgia.

KURT

[creedxup]

The 89-95 engine internals are all the same/interchangeable.

The only difference in the engines are on the 89/90, the oil pump, sump, oil filter and oil cooler and associated plumbing are different.

Externally the 89/90 cases are different and the coolant pipe work and radiator are different than the 91-95.

The 91-95 RU engines are all the same and directly interchangeable.

[kboehringer]

FZR Friends,
I couldn't wait and performed a bit of investigation. It's clear what happened. The CAM CHAIN SNAPPED. And, it was totally avoidable. Unfortunately, I was unable to determine the full extent of the damages.



After pulling the oil pan I found one small chip of aluminum in the pan (5mm x 5mm) otherwise nothing else unusual. I did some looking around and quite honestly you can see much from up under the pan openings. BUT, I saw something unusual in one of the pockets the broken remnants of the cam chain. I had PEEKED under the valve cover as it is such a pain in the butt to remove and saw the chain which appeared to be OK.

Now, having found something really bad I forced myself to pull all the crap out of the way and pull the valve cover. There I discovered the real story. The chain was all bunched up between the cams. I pulled the guide to get it free. However, it is still likely wrapped around the crank keeping it from moving.



Now, the news isn't too terrible. The little piece I found could be the edge of a piston skirt.... Doesn't look much like a piece of the cases. Could be.

THE BAD NEWS
I'm assuming I probably have some bent valves if they smacked the pistons.
I likely have a couple damaged pistons.

THE GOOD NEWS
I have a spare complete cylinder head!
I've seen a set of jugs an pistons on Evil Bay for a reasonable price.
My rods and crank are likely fine.... I HOPE.
Gearbox and all the accessories are undamaged.

It will be a while before I can perform the full disassembly. I'd like to pull the head just to inspect the Piston tops but ther wasnt' enough time today... Maybe next weekend.

KURT

[jcr]

good luck getting it back on the road fella.

[kboehringer]

good luck getting it back on the road fella.

Although it will likely take me a couple months to get her going again.... I will make it run again and HOPEFULLY better than ever!



Found some nice looking jugs and pistons on Evil-Bay so I BOUGHT THEM! It would seem very likely my pistons would have been damaged (at least a couple of them anyway) so I just grabbed another full set and the jugs...

Gonna go after some of the other items next LIKE A NEW CAM CHAIN and a complete gasket set....

[bunk]

Do you have any precision tools to measure parts?

As a machinist ive seen oem parts swapping many times, and it never ends well. Gotta hold a hairs tolerance on most of that stuff, or better.

[kboehringer]

Do you have any precision tools to measure parts?

Bunk,
Yes. I have the compliment of dial indicators, calipers etc. I certainly don't want to do this again so I won't just put a bunch of parts together.

The cylinders (in the e-bay photos) appears to still have a bit of the OEM cross-hatch pattern in them which made be so interested in this particular set. Once received, I'll give them a light going over with a bottle brush hone and then I'll verify piston/cylinder side wall clearances, and then if within spec, order some new rings. All ring end caps will be verified and adjusted as needed.

I'm slightly hopeful the cases will NOT have to split. If they do need to be split I'll send the crank to the local shop to assure it's straight and purchase new rod & crank bearings. Everything will be pasti-gauged before final assembly. If necessary I'll have the crank and rods reconditioned at the machine shop.

I have a local machine shop I've used for help with several engines that can easily perform the necessary turning and polishing should it be needed. I feel confident I can adequately check all the valve train tolerances with my personal tools.

KURT

[kboehringer]

FZR Friends,
I've certainly missed the interaction with my friends across the pond. However, with a locked up motor there hasn't been much to share -

However, today I scored (or so I think) a good deal on a set of brand new pistons. I was at the local Motorcycle Junkyard, which is also a repair shop, and was discussing my need to rebuild my FZR. The owner quickly mentioned he had a set of brand new pistons he thought I might like.



This set of pistons had obviously been sitting around for DECADES without anyone to show interest. Honestly, I have NEVER seen another FZR1000 here in the states (in person). I know they exist but are pretty darn rare.

Anyway I think I got a good deal? What would ya'll expect these to cost? They were made in your neck of the woods at Cosworth Eng. Ltd.





Looking forward to your reply.

KURT

[kboehringer]

What really need to be addressed is why the chain broke.

Hi Bunk,
The chain broke due to corrosion rust/pitting. The bike had sat for several years in a cold and damp environment before I purchased it. I hadn't noticed any rust on the chain during previous repairs as it had likely rotated the "ugly section" to within the motor where it could not be seen. I suspect the exposed areas rusted during the long slumber.

Where the chain broke there was significant visible pitting in the chain. The chain is so tiny that the level of missing steel made the links in that area extremely weak. Breakage was inevitable. I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did as I had been riding the bike for years following the initial rebuilding.

Kurt

[creedxup]

The Exup bore is 75.5 mm

The Exup piston is slightly less than 75.5 mm

Those pistons are for a 87/88 FZR1000 Genesis I think.

[Goshreally2]

I think Creed is right. The 87/88 FZR bore is 75mm.