Not crying, but nearly.

Goshreally2 · Post by **Goshreally2** » Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:33 pm

I had finished rebuilding the brakes on my genesis 87 recently, so I pulled it out today to do a running clutch and gearbox check as the bike is basically finished (mot was next). All the checks I made on the box with the engine static were good and I have replaced the clutch plates and springs and couldn't see any issues when I did. However, when I tried with the engine running It engaged 1st gear ok and clutch operated well ( engaging smoothly ), but when I try to return to neutral it just won't, its like its jammed. If I shut the engine off I can return to neutral and cycle through the gears cleanly and smoothly, no nasty noises (also no noises when running). I could understand better if it happened when the bikes not running. I know I am going to have to have the clutch out at least, but I think it could be a gear bearing or selector fork. Has anyone heard of anything like this please?

Goshreally2 · Post by **Goshreally2** » Sun Mar 06, 2022 8:56 pm

Thanks Stig. I have now made adjustments to the selector and the chain is ok. I realized that if the back wheel is putting tension into the gearbox through the chain it will not shift even with the engine stopped which suggests to me that the clutch is giving a small amount of drag. So I will bleed the clutch and try again tomorrow to see how it goes.

Goshreally2 · Post by **Goshreally2** » Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:08 pm

Tried the bike again today. It refuses to go into neutral when running, also I have noticed a bit of a noise in 1st stationary with the clutch in. I am fairly convinced its not the clutch as operation is good and I can go from 1st to 2nd return to standstill and the clutch disengages well. Shifting doesn't feel 100% so its gearbox. I will start by having the clutch out and seeing if there is anything obvious but I think it will have to be stripped and the box examined. Crying now.

bunk · Post by **bunk** » Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:42 pm

Goshreally2 wrote:Tried the bike again today. It refuses to go into neutral when running, also I have noticed a bit of a noise in 1st stationary with the clutch in. I am fairly convinced its not the clutch as operation is good and I can go from 1st to 2nd return to standstill and the clutch disengages well. Shifting doesn't feel 100% so its gearbox. I will start by having the clutch out and seeing if there is anything obvious but I think it will have to be stripped and the box examined. Crying now.

Listen to folks who have no emotional investment in it.

I would check the clutch and clutch slave real close, all aspects of them. Measure stuff, check for flatness, smoothness, orientation, wear in drum etc

Goshreally2 · Post by **Goshreally2** » Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:58 pm

Pulled the clutch out today and found that the clutch housing has play. I feel a bit stupid as I changed the clutch a few months ago . The bearing from Fowlers is available luckily. I have had to order a holding tool so I can't remove the boss and housing yet ( I don't want to rig something and cause damage ) so I am not sure of the housing bearing surface condition. Would anyone know if the housings are known to wear or is it more likely to be the bearing? and is this likely to be the cause of my clutch drag problem?

Goshreally2 · Post by **Goshreally2** » Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:58 pm

Another thing. Does anyone have an ebc srk clutch kit fitted to their bikes as the clutch springs are shorter than oe. The kit is sold as a replacement to oe, equalling the clutch stack height ( the cushion spring becomes obsolete ). I think they must have it right but without double checking with ebc I am not sure. The springs are 1.5mm shorter than oe minimum length.

Goshreally2 · Post by **Goshreally2** » Thu Mar 10, 2022 6:45 pm

I will do another check on the master and slave cylinders but I have refurbished them with new kits and there are no leaks ( but yes I will check again ). Where the springs are concerned, I phoned EBC technical department today and they reckon the springs I had in the kit where too short. Despite the fact I didn't buy the EBC directly they have sent a new set of springs free of charge that are the correct size for the kit, also they have said if I have any more issues they will replace the whole clutch kit. I think that is the best customer service I have ever experienced. The tech. dept. said that a shorter spring is compressing too quickly and might not provide correct opening, I have to admit that confuses me a bit. I am not going to let it beat me.

bunk · Post by **bunk** » Thu Mar 10, 2022 9:17 pm

Goshreally2 wrote:I will do another check on the master and slave cylinders but I have refurbished them with new kits and there are no leaks ( but yes I will check again ). Where the springs are concerned, I phoned EBC technical department today and they reckon the springs I had in the kit where too short. Despite the fact I didn't buy the EBC directly they have sent a new set of springs free of charge that are the correct size for the kit, also they have said if I have any more issues they will replace the whole clutch kit. I think that is the best customer service I have ever experienced. The tech. dept. said that a shorter spring is compressing too quickly and might not provide correct opening, I have to admit that confuses me a bit. I am not going to let it beat me.

A short spring will coil bind quicker than a long one. Have you done the clutch hose? I have run into issues with old hoses collapsing inside and cause all kinds of grief.

Goshreally2 · Post by **Goshreally2** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:21 pm

Thanks for your help - problem found. Fairly obvious one - the ball bearing has created a dent in both long and short pushrods ( my spare small rod is the same). These dents total 1.5mm aprrox. ( probably a tad bigger ). I packed the slave with 1.7mm test material and that cured the issue. So I am now thinking about how to cure this permanently. The easy way seems to be have the long pushrod extended with a weld. Is there any reason I shouldn't do this? I know someone that does really good work so I can't see an issue. Again thank you everyone has saved me a lot of money that I didn't have anyway. I do have more play in the outer clutch housing than I would like but I will deal with that later but before it becomes a problem.

Goshreally2 · Post by **Goshreally2** » Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:37 pm

I have had a look at the clutch master and slave cylinders and line, all appears ok, no leaks. I have a thunderace master in good condition and repair kit so I will probably fit that. I have a spare slave so I will swop that out also.
I do have play in the outer housing ( not just in/out, forward/back but about 0.7 what I would call wobble ) and some unsatisfactory marks on the inner. I bought a clutch holding tool from Yambits and tried to undo the hub nut. I have put considerable force into trying to undo the nut and it just won't move. So having a think. Any ideas please?

Goshreally2 · Post by **Goshreally2** » Thu Mar 17, 2022 10:17 pm

I managed to undo the clutch hub nut and removed the housings, etc. The collar has no noticeable wear and the bearing surface of the clutch housing is also good, so I am thinking the bearing is worn. However, I am wondering does oil pressure take up take up this small amount of movement ( which seems odd if it does ). I can see it is probably only part of the clutch drag issue ( cylinders and line changes to make sure ).

Goshreally2 · Post by **Goshreally2** » Thu Mar 17, 2022 11:53 pm

Also, the clutch hose I have is stainless braided, it is old but not kinked. How likely is this to be a part of the issue? It seems ok when bleeding, fluid flows through easily.

Goshreally2 · Post by **Goshreally2** » Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:58 pm

Thanks Chris. I will bleed it through as you advise. I found some nasty marks on the inner boss - enough to stop the steel plates from moving properly and sometimes a jam/ dead stop - I am sure this is part of it and so that will be changed also, unfortunately good secondhand items are rare. I should have spotted this in the beginning.

Post by **Stig** » Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:28 pm

I had some rivets made with a thick washer for the other end. That was then tig welded on

Goshreally2 · Post by **Goshreally2** » Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:44 pm

Stopped crying. I have found and cured the problem with my clutch. In short clutch plates ( Nuggit did mention about some members having problems with ebc clutches ). I cleaned up my old clutch plates and put them in - same master, slave and line. The bedded in clutch plates are not causing drag and allowing return to neutral consistently. It was the last thing I would have expected. I am going to email ebc technical and see if they want to inspect it. If so I will present the result as soon as possible. Thank you for your help all.