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YZF1000R-SPRINT
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:59 pm    Post subject: Thunderace Project Reply with quote

Happy New Year guys.

So I have decided that the Thunderace I bought recently is going to go into my shed in the garden and stripped down.

Here is the bike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hcPOf_jjMA

I was going to get this bike to standard and in mint condition but I have decided now to make it a sleeper bike.

These are some ideas I have been thinking of

https://motogadget.com/en/

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-YZF-1000-Thunder-Ace-1999-Nikko-Racing-G-Pack-Electronic-Tuning-Box-/110700984480


1040cc CR FROM 11:5:1 TO 12:5:1
or
1070cc CR FROM 11:5:1 TO 13:5:1

TURBO CHARGER

RAM AIR

OHLINS REAR SHOCK

HANDMADE 4-2-1 EXHAUST OR 4-1 EXHAUST

http://www.keihin-fcr.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=111_68&product_id=80

http://www.rpengines.com.au/Racing/Yamaha-FZR-1000-YZF1000R-Thunderace

https://global.yamaha-motor.com/stories/yamaha-handling/list/vol09/01.html

https://www.magnumtuning.com/en/detail/performance-motorcycle-spark-plug/yamaha/yzf1000-thunderace

So I am going to go balls out and assign a budget of £5000 I know that £5k will buy me a decent bike that would have the same (or more) power than I intend to make (I also have an A1 ZX12R unrestricted) that would satisfy that, this is a project to give me something to do as sat at computer all day

I will start this at end of January and estimate its going to take me 18 months to complete.

Any thoughts?

Jason

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Teego
More Rabbit Than Sainsbury's
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Location: On the road again. Distance is the drug.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As my mother would have said "you could just go out and buy a nice little car for £5000 and have change."
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Stig
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking forward to this. Do like a project 👍

Keep us updated
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YZF1000R-SPRINT
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Location: West Yorkshire
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will smile
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creedxup
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Location: hastings sussex
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:15 pm    Post subject: Thunderace Reply with quote

Iím not sure what benefit the Nikki racing box would be, Iím not so sure the Thunderace was restricted in any of the gears?

Black widow do a 4 2 1 stainless exhaust that eliminates the Exup valve if thatís what youíre after for £300

Itís a lot cheaper and easier to go the 1040 route for almost the same gains as the 1070.

fFor the 1070 you need to have new liners fitted to the barrel and have the crankcase machined to accept them which I can testify is a real pain in the arris.
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1992 RU midnight blue, Wiseco 1070, 6 speed, r1 calipers, ducati discs , 157 bhp crank, Ohlins shock
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YZF1000R-SPRINT
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Posts: 292
Location: West Yorkshire
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is one thing that I'm confused about is that I found a website selling some Wiseco 1040 & 1070 pistons.

1040 are £757
1070 are £607

Should this be the other way around or do you think the website knows that most people will do a 1040 conversion rather than a 1070 RE your comment and put up the price accordingly?

As for the racing box, I thought the T-ACE was also un-restricted so I wonder if the box does actually make any difference at all?
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creedxup
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:59 pm    Post subject: 1070 Reply with quote

Yes I would think that they are having trouble selling the 1070 kit Jason which is why itís cheaper.

Even though I have the 1070 Wiseco set fitted to my EXUP, if I was doing it again Iíd fit the 1040 set.
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1992 RU midnight blue, Wiseco 1070, 6 speed, r1 calipers, ducati discs , 157 bhp crank, Ohlins shock
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YZF1000R-SPRINT
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I've been trying to do a bit of research into turbos to understand the problems of fitting one to a normally aspirated engine.

It seems that the following main items would be affected :-
Oil
Air
Temp
Compression Ratio

So as you guys probably already knew, this isn't case of just buying a turbo, fitting and away you go.

1.] The turbo needs an oil feed and it will also raise the temp of the oil before it returns it to the engine so this would need to cooled down, I would need more oil in the engine and I would have to consider oil starvation to the rest of the engine as the turbo would use a certain qty of oil itself
2,] The Air pressure will be affected in the carbs and this has something to with Atmospheric air pressure, ie petrol wont flow if the pressure is the same as outside
3.] The overall temp of the engine will also raise due to the hot exhaust gases etc.
4.] The Compression Ratio needs to be reduced

Then I would need to decide where and how to position the turbo
How to get the air into the carbs

I'll do some more research :-)
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Stig
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out Dangerous Daves ride. Heís already done it so should be able to point you in the right direction
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YZF1000R-SPRINT
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yes I will cheers
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YZF1000R-SPRINT
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys, well I've now started to strip down the Thunderace.

Basically just taken off all panel, radiator and exhaust for now

But it has started so I reckon in 18 months it will be ready, the reason I estimate 18 months is cos I save up £200 per month and say I want to buy a big bore kit that costs £700 then that's 4 months time :-(

for starters a quick video to keep you amused

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHAsJU9eB8M

Jason
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pilninggas
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been building a turbo bike based on an Xj600 since April. I bought a bike in bits and thought id build something more interesting

https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipO9q5Vf_D6lAPkETKOLV-cgRp0MzVycFZIBxX23

The turbo manifold was mig/inverter welded - DD's stuff is all tig, which i need to learn. The turbo - a TD04L - was matched to the XJ's NA power output, although I am going to change the wastegate actuator and lower the pressure (10psi down to 7 psi). I actually think it might be a bit laggy, but we will see.

Lowered the compression using 2 base gaskets. The standard compression ratio is 10:1, this brings it down to about 9.45:1, which is fine with 7psi.

Added other stuff like an egt probe.

Did experiment with pressurising the carb float bowls. The float valve couldnt cope with a few psi (think rising rate) and i spent a few months on and off fiddling with that. In the end i made up some throttle bodies, based on some FZ6 units (respaced with modified fuel rail) and with 3d printed throttle body to inlet manifold adapters - coated in resin (im a bit of a resin guru sometimes). To control it, ive built a speeduino, which ive bench tested, although some borrowed by sig gen and never gave it back, so i havent done all the checks on it. A generic bosch-style fuel pump and adjustable regulator are mounted up to feed the fuel rail.

The last few months ive done bits, but havent been as motivated as i should be. Due to the drain on the turbo being lower than id like i fitted a scavenge pump. This is on welded bracket below the frame.

Loads to do, but faffing, will be doing more when the weather warms up again - if im not out riding the Niken or NC.
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pilninggas
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pilninggas wrote:
I have been building a turbo bike based on an Xj600 since April. I bought a bike in bits and thought id build something more interesting

https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipO9q5Vf_D6lAPkETKOLV-cgRp0MzVycFZIBxX23

The turbo manifold was mig/inverter welded - DD's stuff is all tig, which i need to learn. The turbo - a TD04L - was matched to the XJ's NA power output, although I am going to change the wastegate actuator and lower the pressure (10psi down to 7 psi). I actually think it might be a bit laggy, but we will see.

Lowered the compression using 2 base gaskets. The standard compression ratio is 10:1, this brings it down to about 9.45:1, which is fine with 7psi.

Added other stuff like an egt probe.

Did experiment with pressurising the carb float bowls. The float valve couldnt cope with a few psi (think rising rate) and i spent a few months on and off fiddling with that. In the end i made up some throttle bodies, based on some FZ6 units (respaced with modified fuel rail) and with 3d printed throttle body to inlet manifold adapters - coated in resin (im a bit of a resin guru sometimes). To control it, ive built a speeduino, which ive bench tested, although some borrowed by sig gen and never gave it back, so i havent done all the checks on it. A generic bosch-style fuel pump and adjustable regulator are mounted up to feed the fuel rail.

The last few months ive done bits, but havent been as motivated as i should be. Due to the drain on the turbo being lower than id like i fitted a scavenge pump. This is on welded bracket below the frame.

Loads to do, but faffing, will be doing more when the weather warms up again - if im not out riding the Niken or NC.


working link: https://photos.app.goo.gl/z1CmAdUB5SCerHHa7
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YZF1000R-SPRINT
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow still lots to do.
Is the blue pipework the finished product or is that a mock up to see how it fits?
I've been trying to see if I can get an oil cooler that fits the Thunderace, first choice is the FZR1000 Exup one but I just cant make out from any pics if the oil hose mounting points on the engine are the same.
Then I was thinking how would I fit all this inside the fairing.
Also your exhaust manifold, I noticed that it looks sort of parallel across the engine IE no fancy pipes, do the pipes have to be fancy or just plain straight ones direct to the turbo
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pilninggas
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YZF1000R-SPRINT wrote:
Wow still lots to do.
Is the blue pipework the finished product or is that a mock up to see how it fits?
I've been trying to see if I can get an oil cooler that fits the Thunderace, first choice is the FZR1000 Exup one but I just cant make out from any pics if the oil hose mounting points on the engine are the same.
Then I was thinking how would I fit all this inside the fairing.
Also your exhaust manifold, I noticed that it looks sort of parallel across the engine IE no fancy pipes, do the pipes have to be fancy or just plain straight ones direct to the turbo


The blue air feedpipe is pretty much in the right location - it runs from the outlet of the compressor side to a plenum up at the throttle bodies - incidentally i think the thunderace carbs will pressurise fine, so you wont have these issues.

Ideally the manifold should be branched with smooth mergining, but doing so would have put the turbo far too low. This set up is called a log manifold. Ultimately turbos thermodynamically rely on pressure drop, not flow rate, so having the turbo as close to the valves is king (hence why new cars have turbos hanging off of the head) and why downstream should be as close to atmospheric as possible. Of course a less efficient flow is far from ideal, and ultimately via a few mechanism relating to cylinder emptying could induce knock at lower boost pressures (read dynamic cylinder pressure) and in general lowers boost power by a couple of %.

As it is just a side project, im less worried about these things and have time to play.

If someone (DD?) can supply you with the exhaust-turbo manifold, and maybe even a plenum, then that is the hard part of any turbo project. Setup and reliability can be a big element too.
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