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redapple
Brolly Dolly
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Joined: 11 Jul 2017
Posts: 15
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject: New Clutch Bike Stalling Reply with quote

Hopeful someone can help me becaused I am stumped.

Finally got my clutch cover off and found that my clutch friction and steel plates were worn, warped and burnt.

I replaced them with a brand new set as well as a new set of EBC stiff springs.

I allowed them to soak in 20W50 Mineral oil for 24 hours and then installed them.

I also did a oil change with the same oil Commal 20W50 Mineral Oil.

I also did a coolant change at the same time to prepare for winter the continued summer.

The bikes starts fine in Neutral but everytime I try and put it into 1st or 2nd its bucks like a mule and stalls.

I have tried everything.

- Bleeding clutch
- taking out the judder spring
- Loosen the pressure plate springs.
- I even reassemebled from clutchhub, everything is in places, bearings, thrust washers housing,, everything.
- The baskets are in good condtion no ridges.
- Washer and Nut down to torque setting.

I did let the bike warm up in Neutral and then tried first. The bike creeped then held and then after 30-min died.

I am thinking I am using the wrong oil. I was told 20W50 was good for old motors mine is about 55,000. Any help would be appreciated

Cheers
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nuggitt
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could try this tip.

Get the rear wheel off the floor and put it in 2nd gear. Grab the rear tyre and rotate it in the direction as if you were going forward. There will be some resitance at first but it should give.

I have to do this sometimes when my bike has been in hibernation over the winter months. It might work or it may not.

Also I think the oil could be a bit thick @ 20w/50. I've done 55,000 odd miles on my bike and I'm using 10w/40 semi synthetic and she loves it.
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Stig
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bet the clutch is EBC brand........


Try your old plain plates instead. Personally I'd still go for 10/40 oil but it's each to their own. The thinner oil may help but you might burn a bit more than usual
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redapple
Brolly Dolly
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks

I will change the oil tommorrow and try the wheel trick and let you know.

Wish I could you use the old plates, rubbish man took them away on monday:(
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Stig
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over the years of running the forum I've read the same issue quite a few times when members install EBC clutches

Seems it's a common fault with that brand
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oldskoolexup
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

10/40 should help ..... but keep us up to speed
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redapple
Brolly Dolly
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

****Update*****

I was finally able to sort this problem with my bike stalling and the problems with using an aftermarket clutch.
It took quite a long time of fault finding but I will run through what I did and maybe the procedures and methods I used to solve the problem. Feel free to chip in if you have a faster way or better method.

From reading the top post you will understand the problem I was having.

For about two weeks I was trying everything , cleaning the clutch plates, bleeding the clutch master cylinder, adjusting the brake lever, changing the oil, .

I even took the bike to a cowboy mechanic to have him have a look. He bled the clutch master cylinder and told me that my clutch plates needed changing and said that I needed the OEM ones. I ordered the OEM clutch and after a lot of reading and digesting while waiting for the delivery I was able to solve the problem.

Two of the main instruments you need when changing a clutch or if you are having clutch problems is "A Digital Measuring Caliper" and also very importantly for hydraulic clutches is a “screw type C clamp 100mm-150mm long".

From the Master Clutch Cylinder down to the Slave Cylinder, the C clamp is the main tool for fault finding from the Push Rod to the pressure plate the main tool is the Digital Measuring Caliper.
I basically measured the clutch friction plates and the clutch metal plates and they were all well within specification.
Friction Plate – 3.0mm
Metal Plate – 2.1mm

But when I measured the stack it was over by 2mm. The culprit, the cushion spring. I read a lot about people removing the cushion spring when installing aftermarket clutches, so once I removed it , my bike would not stall and would change gear but would still creep sometimes at the lights and was still impossible to find neutral with the bike running and at a dead stop. This was not an improvement from what I originally had.
I inspected the clutch, clutch basket fine no groves/fingers. Bearings and clutch secure, springs measured 52mm which was ok.

So I decided to check my hydraulics. The method I used to check the hydraulics. Is to undo the slave bolts and you need to place the C clamp on the slave piston as pictured. Do not used a pump c clamp (pictured below)

it will not tell you if there is any pressure loss, you need a screw type c clamp to get the correct results.
(pictured below)

With the C Clamp on, start to pull the clutch lever, as the piston meets the clamp the lever will start to firm up. Once the piston is pushing against the clamp the lever will become really difficult to pull.(pictured below)

You will not be able to get it back to the handle bar with one hand and barely with two hands. This means that no pressure is leaking.
This was not the case with my clutch master cylinder. I purchased an aftermarket brembo cylinder and unfortunately the seals were blown/folded over/worn. In the picture below you can see I can bring it back to the handle with one hand.

Pressure is leaking from somewhere. Be warned my master cylinder was not leaking any fluid but was leaking pressure. If you are buying a second master cylinder from ebay I strongly suggest you use this method to test it out.
It could have been anything from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder causing pressure loose, copper washers, poor hose, leaking slave. But mine was the master cylinder.

I swapped my master cylinder out and put back the original and used the C clamp to help me bleed the clutch and with the clamp on you can get more pressure to remove the air bubbles. The lever lever will became really difficult to pull

Another worthwhile invest for £5 is one of these Banjo Bolt With Bleed Nipple


It makes the job sooo much easier especially with these coffin type master cylinders. Once I bled it and rode the bike. Low and Behold my clutch came back, no more creeping no more stiff clutch.

But once done the clutch is smooth.
I was so happy but also quite pissed off that I had to find the fault myself and that when I took to the mechanic he couldn’t see the woods from the trees. I swear the mechanics in London are getting shitter and shitter every year.
I still have a little bit of trouble finding neutral but not sure if this is down the 32mm slave piston which give it less throw than a smaller size.Or I will probably have to bleed it a few times over two weeks to get all the air out because it quite hard getting the nano/mirco bubbles out.
I did try a larger bore master cylinder 17.5mm -19mm but unless you are King Kong the lever becomes so stiff you will have wankers cramp by the end of the ride.
15mm is probably the lowest you can go with that size slave piston, any lower and you wont have enough piston throw resulting in the plates dragging.

Hope this helps someone in the future.
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